Voices of the Vigilant EP09 | The Mentor’s Map: Empowering Pathways to Cyber
In This Episode
This episode features Chris Lemmon, Director of Security Engineering at Secure Yeti
You can learn more about the conversation and the guest below.
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VIDEO: Voices of the Vigilant EP09
“The Mentor’s Map” Featuring Chris Lemmon, Director of Security Engineering at Secure Yeti
About the Guest
As Director of Security Engineering, Chris Lemmon leads Secure Yeti’s team of security consultants while delivering security assessments for high-profile clients.
Guided by a passion for empowering diverse students to succeed in cybersecurity, Chris runs the Cybersecurity Career Accelerator (CCA) program at City Colleges of Chicago to help bridge the gap between education and career.
Chris’s enthusiasm for knowledge sharing is matched only by her commitment to community impact. She serves on Latinas in Cyber’s (LAIC) Advisory Board, the DEF CON Groups Global team, and as Deputy Conference Associate Coordinator for Black Hat USA
Away from the keyboard, Chris is happily outnumbered by her Border Collie and Australian Shepherd, who insist on fresh air and adventure.
Full Episode Transcript
Jess Vachon: 0:32
Hey, welcome everyone to another episode of Voices of the Vigilant. This is episode nine of season one, and my guest today is Chris Lemmon, Director of Security Engineering at Secure Yeti. Chris, welcome, tell us a little bit about yourself and Secure Yeti and if I'm saying it correctly or if you say it a different way.
Chris Lemmon: 0:52
Yes, thanks so much, Jess. Thanks for having me. So yeah, Secure Yeti, it's actually a play on words. It's based in Oklahoma, so it's "security. It's a play on the Southern accent of security, so it is Secure Yeti. I've been there for about four years. I am the director of security engineering. I lead our team of security consultants, and I also act as a consultant on the team myself, so that is my day job. I also have a passion job at City Colleges of Chicago. I've been there for about the last six years in various capacities and currently running a cybersecurity career accelerator program that helps bridge the gap between education and employment, so I love seeing my students landing their first entry-level roles.
Jess Vachon: 1:48
Yeah, you have a lot going on. You just skimmed the surface. So, as we get into this, people are going to find out you do a lot more than what you just told us. Tell us about what your professional organization that you work for, what they do and kind of what your work is in that organization.
Chris Lemmon: 2:06
Yeah, so we're offensive security consultants, at least the team that I'm running. We do have other services as well security consulting, security as a service, et cetera. Yeah, we have two sides of the house. We have our commercial side and we're federal consultants as well.
Jess Vachon: 2:30
Nice, I imagine, being federal consultants, you're staying pretty busy, as of late, with the Department of War and the other parts of the administration, expanding use of security services across the government infrastructure, which actually, I have to say, I think that's a good thing, because I think it's been an area that has needed more attention, so good to see that expanding. You did mention the Cyber Security Career Accelerator at City Colleges of Chicago. Tell me how you got involved with that. I may be misunderstanding, but I believe you were part of standing that up. How long it's been running? How many students have been through there? Fill us in All right.
Chris Lemmon: 3:17
Yeah, so I actually stumbled into teaching. It was not an intention. I was trying to break into the industry back in 2019 and looking for a path in. So, I volunteered on a Security Plus boot camp and started working with City Colleges of Chicago that way. On the Security plus bootcamp and working on that, they had asked me to develop a CTF class. Um, so through that, I ran that for a few years and, um, I was able to work black hat.
Chris Lemmon: 4:00
Uh, back in 2021, I believe it was through Women's Society of Cyberjutsu, they had put out a call for volunteers, saying that they had a connection to volunteer for Black Hat and I had never been to a conference before. So, I said, yeah, let's do it Like, let me go volunteer at Black Hat. I had no idea how large it was or anything to expect, but I went, and I did that and it was absolutely amazing being able to volunteer with other individuals who were either new to the industry, breaking in, or long-time veterans. Uh, so, being there, I said how do I get the students here? How can I? You know I was running the CTF class at the time and I said I would really love to be able to get the students to this conference because I think it's such an opportunity for them to be able to network within the volunteer realm, but also, obviously, at Black Hat, and have the opportunity to attend Black Hat and then also DEF CON as well as part of the program.
So, I went back to my boss at City Colleges, and I said how do we make this happen? How do we get the students here? And she said it sounds like you need to make another class. So, I developed the cybersecurity career accelerator and it's you know, it's essentially for all of the students who they already have the education They've already. They already have the degree, they’ve been through the bootcamp, they, they have what they need, but they just need someone to give them a chance, and so they're trying to figure out how to stand out. Uh, in being that you know one person in a thousand who are applying for one entry-level role. So that's, uh, that's how the program was born.
Jess Vachon: 5:42
I love it, so much there. One, I want to thank you for the shout out to CyberJutsu. Full disclosure I'm on the board of CyberJutsu so whenever it's mentioned, I want to make sure that I highlight that. Let's talk about CTFs. There may be some people out there that don't know what a CTF is or what CTF means. Talk a little bit about what CTF is, what is involved in CTF and then how you help people learn to be successful with CTFs.
Chris Lemmon: 6:17
Yeah. So CTFs are a great opportunity. They're capture-the-flag competitions and there's all different kinds. There's Jeopardy style, where you're asked a question and you provide an answer, typically in the form of a flag that you submit. There's also other competitions like cyber ranges, et cetera, and essentially, it's just a great platform to be able to learn new tools and skills with other people. Learn new tools and skills with other people Also. Sometimes you can play as part of a team very often, or you can play individually, but they're essentially, you know, cybersecurity concepts turned into game. They're gamified and it can be anything from I know that there's a cryptography specific CTF there's. You know, blue team specific. I know WiCyS does a WiCyS specific CTF. There's you know, Blue Team specific. I know WSIS does a WiCyS Target CTF, I believe is all defenses. But yeah, there's all kinds of CTFs out there to help you learn new tools and give you things to put on your resume right to show that you're passionate about those areas.
Jess Vachon: 7:23
Yeah, it's interesting. So, I have a very close relative, I'll just say it's my daughter, recently did the first round with WiCyS for the Capture the Flag cohort, intro cohort, and it's interesting. She had absolutely no experience in information security, which you would think is odd because she has a parent who is a CISO. But what was interesting was she was accepted into the program, kind of thrown into it. They said capture as many flags as you can. And she said "I don't know what to do other than set up the, the virtual machines which she figured out. And I applauded her on that because if you've never set up a virtual machine at all and you don't know much about IT, just accomplishing that is a big deal, so you need to be proud about that. But she ended up, through doing some research and you know, being inquisitive, managed to capture about, I think, 36% of the flags that were part of the challenge. What was the most exciting to me and to her was she discovered she had a passion for it and really enjoyed doing it. So now she's moving on. She's doing TryHackMe, to learn more through TryHackMe.
Jess Vachon: 8:40
So I love that you are bringing that experience to your students because it gives them another way to see how they learn and where their interest may be in cybersecurity Because, as you know and as I know, there's so much that we can look at, so many areas that we can specialize in and I think for a lot of people new to the field, they think I have to know everything. But you don't. You don't. First, you have a whole career to learn all of these different aspects, but really just find that area of interest to begin with and pursue it for a while and build your skills in that area. I love that you have that built for the students.
Jess Vachon: 9:23
Further and I know I'm doing a lot of talking and I apologize because I know you're the guest, but it's really helpful if you're just starting out and you don't know what you like, because that's one of the things where everyone says, well, what do you want to do? Like, I don't care, I just want to do anything, I just want to be in cybersecurity, and that's the wrong answer. First of all, you know, figure out what it is that you like, what you like to do and CTFs are a great way to do that, where you can go in and you can dabble in different areas and see which parts you like, that you want to, you know, further deep dive into.
Jess Vachon: 10:02
I like is that it's through the community colleges. So, when I see a lot of people new to cybersecurity, a lot of them have gone through a full bachelor's program. Very few have gone to the community colleges. But when I look at candidates that have been to community colleges versus candidates that have been to four-year colleges, those coming out of the community colleges have an edge, and here's my theory as to why they have an edge the community colleges can adapt and change their programs much faster than the four-year colleges can. The four-year colleges. I don't know what's involved with changing the curriculum, but you tend to find that it becomes four or five or six years old in terms of where the students need to be when they come to the program. Whereas and I've talked to your students, I've done mock interviews with your students, they come out of your courses, out of the community college courses, and they are sharp. They are current on the information, they're current on the techniques, they can speak to them, they can demonstrate them. So, it's really a unique proposition that community colleges bring forth.I
Jess Vachon: 11:11
And when I talk to my mentees, I tell them don't invest in the four-year education. Start out taking a Try Hack Me course, see if you can get into one of these scholarship programs and you've mentioned the scholarship programs or the different organizations that promote those and go to a community college. Take a few classes at the community college. One, it's affordable you can pay as you go in most cases. And two, it's a current curriculum. And three you just mentioned it You're bringing in the CTFs, you're bringing in the certification programs, so all in it's a better investment of your time and your money when you don't know for sure that you're going to be moving into a paid career right away. So, kudos to you and kudos to Chicago for having such a dynamic and robust program.
Chris Lemmon: 12:03
Yeah, and I will say that much of the programming is actually free. So, both of the classes that I run, both of the programs the CTF class and the CCA, the Cybersecurity Career Accelerator program they're both grant funded, so they're actually no cost to the students. They are competitive in terms of applicants. But same thing with the Security Plus Boot Camp, also often free for the students. So there's a lot of grant funding there, because what's happening is, you know, especially in continuing education, which is what I'm focused on, is continuing education, because, you're absolutely right, I can just create whatever kind of class that I want to, just you know it has to get approved by the college, but that's it. So, it's. It's easy for me to add in a completely new component that nobody's heard of before, or do something completely different, like bringing students to Black Hat and DEF CON, and it's just. It's a great opportunity for people.
Jess Vachon: 13:13
That's great. I'm going to circle back to Chicago. I have more to say about the programs in Chicago and how I view Chicago in terms of technology, but we'll come back to that. You're also on the advisory board, and I think you mentioned this, of Latinas in Cyber. Can you speak to me about that program, how you get involved in it and where that organization is moving?
Chris Lemmon: 13:38
Yeah, absolutely, and I apologize if you can hear my dogs barking in the background. I'm guessing somebody just rang the doorbell. But yeah, Latinas in Cyber. I've been involved with them for the last couple of years. Amazing organization, very just, well-structured and so many great quality programming that come out of that organization. I believe right now they're doing a CISSP program. They're also doing, I think, a Google certification program. But, yeah, you can look them up on LinkedIn. You can go to their website. I believe it's latinasincyber. org.
Chris Lemmon: 14:25
I'm just going to go there really quick to make sure I'm not sending y'all to the wrong place. It is Latinas in cyber. com. So Latinas in cyber. com, and they are working on just essentially getting as many Latinas into the community as they can. Um, the percentage gosh off the top of my head. I want to say it's like 4% of the industry are Latinas. It's very, very low. Um, they're also the most underpaid of everyone, of all of the different ethnicities and of everyone. It's just, it's really sad.
Chris Lemmon: 15:07
So, um, the way that I got involved in that actually was I.
I met Angela Hill who uh, Angela Bergsman, sorry she's gotten married since then and I had mentioned to her that, you know, I've never really gotten involved in any of the Latina programming because I don't feel like I can because I'm very white presenting and I'm, you know, I'm half Ecuadorian and I wasn't raised with my father who's Ecuadorian, so I've always felt kind of like, well, can I actually claim that I'm Latina?
Because, you know, everyone just assumes that I'm white. I don't have the culture, I don't speak Spanish, and she's like "what Are you kidding me? Like absolutely 100%, like you are who you are, that's part of your roots, um, and she's just amazing. So, I've, I've loved being involved, uh, involved with them. We actually ran a version of the CTF course that I do for City Colleges of Chicago with them called the LAIC, by NCL and yeah, so they ran a very similar CTF cohort that one of, actually, my previous students that took the CTF class actually headed it up and managed that program for them. She is one of their members and shout out to MJ there because she's amazing.
Jess Vachon: 16:30
So that's awesome. We're inadvertently marching down a theme here and I'm going to come back to it, but I love it because it's very important. I'll just give a hint as to where I'm going to go with this is that these organizations came to be for reasons and we're going to come back to that. So, I'm of the belief that everybody has intrinsic value, and I'll go back again to when I mentor people, and I talk to them about intrinsic value.
Now, intrinsic value to me is, it's your lived experience, so it's how you grow up, it's jobs you have prior to going into cybersecurity. It's the way you learn. It's the community you grow up in and how you interact in that community. It all ties together to make you who you are. When you come into our career field, you come with value. It's important for everybody to know that it's a power. I just mentioned two seconds ago that there's a theme developing here and this is part of the theme. You were a nanny prior to working in cybersecurity. How does that part of your lived experience? How did it influence you moving into cybersecurity and how does it influence the work that you do today?
Chris Lemmon: 18:08
That's a great question. You know it's funny because when I was first getting into the industry, one of my first interviews that I had, the person who was interviewing me mentioned how excited that they were that I had been a nanny because of all of the transferable skills that came from it. And I thought what are you talking about? Like, these have nothing to do with each other being a nanny and being a consultant. Like how does that, how, how are there transferable skills there?
I've learned a lot since then in terms of you know how everything that we do has these skills that transfer. But you know, for one, you're often putting out fires, right. You're learning to stay calm, you're learning to how to navigate situations that pop up and kind of diffuse situations, but it's a lot of just managing people and essentially that's where my career has guided. I've learned that I really enjoy helping people and I actually, before getting into cyber, had considered going down a path of maybe becoming a social worker, working with children in foster care, and I think that it's been really great for me to be able to actually pull that in to what I'm doing in cyber by kind of changing my course in what I'm doing in what I'm doing. So, there is definitely overlap in terms of the people skills and people management. I think I missed one of your other points. What was your other question?
Jess Vachon: 19:49
I think you answered it perfectly. You know how you brought that experience into the work that you do today, and I think you spoke well to that.
Chris Lemmon: 19:59
Especially with the students right.
Jess Vachon: 20:01
Yes, well, I wasn't going to say that. You said that they're your students. I'm not passing any judgments there, yeah, yeah. So, here's the point I want to make where we've come so far in your story and in this conversation, it's talking about intersectionality. Few of us come as just one thing right. You mentioned being a Latina, right? You're a female, you were a nanny and now you're in information security, so there's a whole bunch of things that are happening there. You are involved in multiple organizations. You are involved in multiple different functions in the cybersecurity community. You see a lot of people. You teach a lot of people. You hire different people. You work with different people in the course of your work. You see a lot of diversity. You hire different people. You work with different people in the course of your work. You see a lot of diversity, I would guess. Is that a correct statement? I'd like to hear your opinions on the strength that is brought forward for an organization or for someone in their career field being from a diverse background. What are your thoughts on that?
Chris Lemmon: 21:19
Yeah, so I mean there, I feel like there's so many. I could talk about this for the next four hours. There's so many different, different components here, but I think just so that I'm not talking about this for the next four hours I think that the biggest piece of this is just understanding that if, if everyone is the same, coming from the same place with the same background, with the same knowledge, there's going to be so many gaps. It's like the. You know, what we need is that Swiss cheese model right, when everyone has that. We're covering it from all different angles, because everyone has a different lived experience and everyone has different ideas. A different lived experience and everyone has different ideas, and all of their background helps contribute to making one whole team with that Swiss cheese model of right. Everyone brings a little bit to the team, because one person can't be everything, one person can't know everything, so it's imperative to have a variety of people so that we can fill as many gaps as we can and have that coverage.
Jess Vachon: 22:23
I like that your answer focused on a person, because that's what it's all about, right? It's about the person and it's about the skills that they bring to the table, and that should be the only thing. This is my opinion, not putting words in your mouth. That should be the only thing that matters. Do you have the aptitude to do the work? Do you have a background that brings a different perspective, and can you work with others who may or may not share your perspectives but learn to all row the boat in the same direction.
Chris Lemmon: 22:55
Yeah, and we could go down all of those different pathways, but that is what it comes down to. Is the person, right? Because it is. There's just there's so many components there.
Jess Vachon: 23:11
Yeah, I've been talking to all my guests about artificial intelligence. We're still pretty much in the dawn of AI. I know it's been developing over the last eight or 10 years, but really now we're seeing it come into the mainstream. In my experience and in my opinion, it's still pretty immature. What are you seeing as the impact of AI on a career field? How is it influencing how you guide and teach your students? What are they bringing to the table in the classroom in terms of knowledge about AI and questions that they're bringing forward for you?
Chris Lemmon: 23:49
Yeah, so I've been teaching, essentially, if you're not using AI, you're going to be left in the dust, right? It's something that you have to do. It's something you have to start learning and incorporating. In terms of careers, I know a lot of people have been really concerned going to continue happening with the lower-level tasks that can be automated, but, honestly, it's just going to create more jobs. The jobs are just going to change in terms of what they are, so people need to learn to adapt those corners and do things more efficiently. So, you really do have to, you know, stay up with the curve and go with where everything is transitioning into, which is utilizing AI.
Jess Vachon: 24:57
Yeah, that's a great point. I've been around long enough to see several evolutions of technology and one of those that I saw I guess it's probably 10, almost 15 years ago now was the move to infrastructure as a service and how those technical people who failed to learn about it and understand how it related to physical infrastructure ended up being left behind. So, I've seen waves of people who, if they don't learn the new technology and they're not continuing to run on the treadmill, unfortunate, but that's true about what we do. You have to continue to keep up the pace. If you're not learning it, you're going to be left behind. And in this job market, which is horrendous for everyone, you need to be learning constantly, and you need to be carving out some of your personal time to do labs at your house on your own computer. You know, I have spent hours and hours and hours on ChatGPT and some of the other options that are out there for artificial intelligence, to learn, to get better prompts and to see what those different platforms are capable of. And you know, in my professional work and I'm sure you're seeing in your professional work it's already there, it's already creeping in. I need to be able to advise how we secure it and then advise people how to use those tools securely as well. So, appreciate your feedback and thoughts on that.
I said I was going to circle back to Chicago and I'm going to do that right now. So, I am of the opinion and some people may disagree with me, but I'm going to give some evidence to this that Chicago is a technology hub, and I think it's an often overlooked technology hub. I don't know why, maybe because it's not on the East Coast, it's not Boston and it's not on the West Coast and it's not in San Jose or Silicon Valley. But here's why , I know of at least three companies that are headquartered in Chicago. So Kraft-Heinz, Conagra and McDonald's, all have heavy investments in technology and heavy investments in technology staff. Now, those are three. There's also a lot of financial companies headquartered in Chicago that are doing the same thing. You live in Chicago. You associate with the technologists in that area all the time. Am I right or am I wrong?
Chris Lemmon: 27:44
I would have to agree with you, and I was just trying to look at the. We just got a quantum computing. I'm trying to remember the terminology. City Colleges of Chicago has been working with their hub and I know that they're quantum computing. I'm trying to remember the terminology. City Colleges of Chicago has been working with their hub and I know that they've invested a great deal of money in growing that. So I would have to agree.
Jess Vachon: 28:13
Yeah, and it's interesting too because I so I mentioned Boston and I mentioned, California, cities in California and I mentioned Chicago. There's a commonality in those three areas which I think is heavy investment in education, protection of individual liberties and the way people want to live, and then these creations of opportunities of business in these areas. You don't get investment in areas that aren't doing the right things right. Companies just don't come and dump money in these areas. Companies don't hire in these areas if they don't think there's some value to the staffing they're going to get. So I believe Chicago is doing all the right things. You spoke about community colleges, you spoke about the affordability, you spoke about the diversity of your program and the applicants and participants and diversity of workforces. Bringing that all together, what are your thoughts for the next five to 10 years in terms of cybersecurity opportunities or just technology opportunities in Chicago and the surrounding Chicago area?
Chris Lemmon: 29:30
So this is an interesting one for me, because I have worked remote for a company based in Oklahoma for the last four years and I am 100% remote worker. Like I will, I want to say knock on wood, I will never go back to in-office work unless it's literally my last option. I am all for the remote work. So I don't know that I'm the best person to speak to the growth in Chicago, but I do think that you know what you're saying. It makes a lot of money into building Chicago up and bringing in apprenticeships and all kinds of funding for the residents to be able to grow in in technologies.
Jess Vachon: 30:24
So I think I think you're spot on yeah, that, or I'm working for the city of Chicago's tourism bureau and I just I do frequently visit there, I'm always impressed by the growth in the city of Chicago. And, knowing that you're in Chicago, I just naturally assume that there's a whole bunch of technologists in the area.
I do go to the conferences, and I know you've been invited to different conferences there. I've been invited to conferences there, so it's a fun place to be. It reminds me of why I get into cybersecurity, why I get into technology years ago, because Chicago still has this fun vibe about it and this youthfulness about it and I don't say that in a negative way, because I'm not in my youth any longer, but it's bringing something that I think is attracting people, and it's attracting younger people who are earlier, they're giving them affordable opportunities to grow their careers and the businesses are moving into the area.
So I ask each guest something I call an empowering question. So I'm going to read it, but when I read it, consider it's you asking the question to yourself, and if you have to take a second to think about your answer, then feel free to do so. So the question is "where am I going and why?
Chris Lemmon: 32:14
Jess with the deep questions. Okay, where am I going and why so? And I talked about this a little bit already in terms of, you know, finding my, my path in cyber. And you know, originally I started out at the very, very beginning with web development and getting a web development degree and then going into a cybersecurity boot camp and getting into the SANS Academy and doing SANS certifications and doing all of the technical courses and learning all of the technical skill set of everything.
Chris Lemmon: 32:48
I keep coming back to people. It keeps circling back to how I can help people and I think that I've only ever actually been a security consultant in cyber. That's been my role. My last two positions I've been a security consultant and while theoretically, or you know, I know that I'm helping people secure their environments and that, in essence, is helping people, but you don't really get to see it. You don't really get to see the growth and the change that you're making.
And so I think my transition into being the Director of Security Engineering at Secure Yeti and being able to lead the team and really work on internally on the team's processes and goals and helping the company grow and helping the team just succeed. That's been really fulfilling for me, in the same way that working with city colleges and working with the students that's, you know, that's my passion is. You know I spend so many hours like off hours. Just, you know students will ping me on Discord and say, hey, Chris, I just got this job offer. What do you think about XYZ? Or I have this problem. What do you think about XYZ? And all the time and energy that I'm putting in there, seeing them get their first entry-level roles in cyber is so gratifying for me because I know that it is life-changing to go from working an hourly job or, you know, two hourly jobs to try and make ends meet, to getting into an actual career in cybersecurity and getting a job that you know it is essentially a career that's life-changing and it's also generational changing, like it's changing not just that one life but also, you know, their kids and how their kids are raised, and so that's a really big piece of what drives me in all of the work that I do.
And you know we've talked about the different organizations that you know I've worked with. I've worked with Women's Society of Latinas in Cyber, WiCyS. I've, you know, worked with a lot of different organizations in trying to essentially help people with their goals, and I think that that's where I'm going to continue going. And actually, one of the things that I've been really excited about I haven't been able to do it yet is I actually approached Secure Yeti about doing a Backpacks for Good event and essentially all the backpacks that you get from Black Hat, Defcon, RSA, you know, all those conference backpacks, I want to say I have probably I don't know 20 of them that I've never used, that are just sitting in my closet.
So doing a fundraising event where, essentially, we collect all the backpacks that people don't want, the unused swag bags, backpacks that people don't want, the unused swag bags and security is going to sponsor filling those with, you know, toiletries, warm goodies, those kinds of things for the homeless, and we'll pack those bags and then go drop them off at a shelter for them to be able to distribute those as it starts getting colder here in Chicago, because we do have, you know, unfortunately, a lot of homeless people. So, trying to help support the community in that way, I feel like that's probably what I'm going to continue doing is, you know, bringing those kinds of things wherever I go. So it's, you know it, what it's what actually makes me feel fulfilled, that I'm helping people.
So it's what actually makes me feel fulfilled that I'm helping people, so I love it.
Jess Vachon: 36:48
Yeah, something you said "generational change. I hear very few people speak about it or realize it, especially those that are teachers or mentors, and they don't consider that what they're doing has a long term impact. And what you're doing has a tremendous impact.. I'm reading a book called Microactivism. Right, I don't think anyone can see it, but anyways, it's Microactivism - Omkari L. Williams wrote the book, and it talks about the small things we can do in life that aren't necessarily in the headlines but that help create change. And when we're doing all these small things, it's like little ripples that become a big wave, and if you get enough big waves now, you've got the power of the ocean behind it. Chris, I believe what you're doing, all these small things that you're doing, are making this big change and that generational change is a big thing. We won't always see the difference we're making in the short term although I think you are seeing a little bit of it, but over the course of our lives, over the course of our careers, when these people come back and say, hey, I'm now a VP of security at such and such. Thank you for helping me get started.
And they have a family and they have a house and they go on vacations. That's when you know you've made a change. It's even more impressive if, like myself, they came from nothing. They may come out of poverty and you helped them lean on themselves and learn to be resilient and excel and change not only their lives but the lives of the people that they meet along the way. Anyways, just want to make sure I get kudos in for you and all the work that you do. We're nearing the end of our discussion. How can people contact you? Where can they find you? Are you going to be going to any conferences in the near future? Fill us in.
Chris Lemmon: 38:44
Yeah, I mean I'm on LinkedIn. Conferences. I actually don't think I have any conferences coming up until the WiCyS conference, I believe is in April, so taking a little bit of a break. I did a Black Hat DefCon, the Diana Initiative and Blue Team Con, all within like a month of time, so taking a little bit of a break there. But yeah, also Chicago events. I mean you mentioned the tech community in Chicago and there are so many different organizations and events and DEF CON groups. Dcg 312 just started back up and they're doing quarterly events and VRBSEC is another one I try to go every month. Vrbsec East is another organization. Just that one's kind of a fun, just hang out, go grab a drink and hang out and chat with others and the community. But yeah, I guess I'll, I'll be around.
Jess Vachon: 39:47
Nice folks reach out to Chris, especially if you're starting out your cybersecurity career. There's not a better person that you could connect with than Chris. Chris, thank you for joining me today. Listeners, if you enjoyed what you heard today, please like this episode and subscribe to the podcast. Your subscriptions help me to continue to bring the program to you and have such amazing guests as Chris Lemmon. Until next time, everyone Bye.
